Episode 2: Our Favorites from 2021
Welcome to our 2021 wrap up episode!
This time we sit down and talk about the year that just passed. We share our favorite books, in general and this year, as well as the courses we took and loved.
Transcript of the episode
Carolee: Hello everyone. And welcome to episode two of 13 apart. I'm here with my cohost Monica. It's been a while since we recorded. We had to do some catch up before we got started to see how everything's going. But here we are recording this, it's December 30th, my time 31st, your time.
Monica: Yea, last day of December, last day of 2021.
Carolee: I know it's so crazy. So for today's episode, since it is the end of the year, we decided we would go over some of our favorite things from 2021. Before we say goodbye to 2021, go into 2022, hoping it goes a little more smoothly than 2021 did.
Monica: Yeah.
Carolee: But yeah, I feel like it's interesting because I have this card and I'll pull it up here so that everybody can see it. So I'm a crafter. So I've got all my crappy stuff and it was this part. It says this year, in review, it was pretty good, better than I imagined, so many changes, not the best and so glad it's over. And I was like, do I only have to pick one? Because I feel like all of them. It's like all of the above, all of the above. How do you feel like yours was kind of on that scale?
Monica: It's very interesting because I don't know, like with my, with the way my memory works, I feel like I, I, I only, I only remember what's like close to present. Not like it's very strange. It's very selective and-
Carolee: A hundred percent.
Monica: -every year I make a calendar for my, my in-laws, my mom. And I put a lot of pictures, you know, like for my kids and, and it's one time, you know, in December where I go through all the pictures we've taken and because, you know, everything is like, it has a date and it's like one my chance to like really re like play back my, my past year.
Carolee: Right.
And it's crazy how, like all the things that I've done.
Carolee: Yeah.
Monica: But it's always strange to feel like, oh, you know, like this year, like, oh, I like, I don't know if I did, like, I don't feel as accomplished then, you know, I just have like a lot of the, the regrets. Oh, I should have like what is, so I think this year objectively speaking, I've over committed.
I wanted to do a lot more than like what I did, which is, you know, quite a lot. I so going, going back to the question, how was my year? I think my year was very like eclectic, just a lot of different things that happened. Some by choice, of course, I'm like, you know, I didn't expect, but I, I end the year at a much more robust place. Like I think, I, I know like my direction, my, oh, my first year, my, my year started with okay I lost my train of thought, but it was like going, how was my year? My year was very eclectic. Like I, I dabbled on a lot of things, very on the surface level. I've taken like some amazing courses. I've made, I may met some amazing people. And I think I'm ending the year, with more, like clarity towards like, okay, I want to focus on this community. I want to focus on these skills next year.
Carolee: Right.
Monica: So I have a better idea of what to focus on. I started with like, oh wow. This world is amazing. I'm going to try everything. And I think I tried a lot of things and I'm ending with, okay, I'm going to keep these things.
Carolee: Yea, and I think, I think that's one of the great things that they're kind of like one of the superpowers slash curses of ADHD is it's like, okay, you've got all these ideas that you want to try and you can kind of like dip your toe into it.
I feel like if you learn really quickly or just like, it's almost like you just jump in. See how it feels. And then if you're not feeling it, you can jump back out and, or you can just like, okay, I like this, but I'm going to put it on the back burner for now. And I'll come back to at a later date. I feel like that's one of our things, but it also means you're kinda like looking everywhere all the time for something they're like, that could be interesting. What's that over there? Like shiny objects.
Monica: Yeah. Lots of shiny objects and lots of shiny objects. And-
Carolee: Absolutely.
Monica: Yeah. We'll have fewer next year. I don’t know-
Carolee: I don’t know. I don't know if we will, hopefully we'll just learn faster. That's the thing I always try to say is I'm like, I feel like no matter what, especially being online and being in that like entrepreneurial space, there's always gonna be some new thing.
There's always going to be some new app, some new service, some new book, some new idea. And I think a lot of it for us, you know, being people with ADHD, kind of just being like, okay, let me pick it up and sort of like check it for a second and see how it kind of goes for me. And if it goes well, you know, again, it's like, bring it in, let it go kind of a thing.
I think it's just being as aware as we are online and being around, being around like a lot of really smart people, like a lot of really great ideas and who are really reading fantastic books and all of these things, we just have that kind of input all around us all times. And I don't know for me, I know well, and I'm, I'm like, yeah, I'm going to fall into some sort of crazy hole come out of it later.
Monica: I know I do too. I think I won. I I'm a little more selective. I think I definitely wanted to do everything and I thought I could do everything. And I thought I had like a lot of time, which of course I, I didn't.
But yeah, there, there are definitely things that I really wanted to get deeper into, but I didn't get to like really wanting to learn and read more about like web three and you know, like the whole like NFT, crypto, blockchain. Like I wanted to go through that, that rabbit hole, but I just did not get around to that, so hopefully next year.
Carolee: Oh yea, so yea, it's a lot. I mean, like that was one of the things that I was thinking of that I kind of picked up and then put back down was, was that kind of like crypto and things like that. Because for me, when I first heard about it, I'm like, oh, this seems like a cool new tech that I can get into and all these types of things.
And then I was like, oh, it's secretly finance. And I'm just not good with that kind of stuff. So I was like, okay, you know, once it got into like, you know, like, oh, this type of wallet and then move this thing here, and then this thing does this, and it's just like, my bigger concern was like, I'll know just enough about it to lose everything and then figure out how I did like, oh, I shouldn't use that. I shouldn't have done that.
Monica: Yeah, definitely. I I did, like, I did get on the constitution, like, you know, Dow like just, just, it was, it was very interesting cause like I learned first about like, you know, gas prices and how like the fees to transfer. And then like I run into all these issues cause like, you know, like my citizenship and like my residency, everything I'm like mixed in and like I was borrowing like I had, my husband sent me some like crypto and it was just like a mess.
But I think because it's a mess, like I really do want to learn it eventually, hopefully next year. But one great thing that happened to me was I, I started working for, for the startup and I just loved their work, how they were the team. And like, it's like fully remote. And I think up until this year, I was like, you know, like, how is it different working remote?
Like, I was really trying to do the same things just remotely. And the whole thing is just, it's just like a very different game. So like that was, I think it definitely highlighted meeting this, you know, like this startup company and I'll be doing more work with them next year. So lots of things to learn in that space, but working remotely, like being productive, being like communicating remotely, that's probably going to be at the center for next year.
Carolee: Yea, yea absolutely.
Monica: I know, like I I've taken a lot of courses. I think in like looking at my, my expenses. I haven't saved much at all this year-
Carolee: Invested into your mind.
Monica: Yeah. I've invested a lot on courses and just wanted to, I loved how I could, I could talk about courses all day.
Carolee: It's almost like one of your projects is going to be all about courses.
Monica: I know. I know. And I, I have people ask me like, oh, you know, like, well, like in what order should I take this courses? Like, you know, can you recommend next courses? I really hope that I can, I can be a better resource for, for people interested in courses. But what have been like your favorite courses this year? Carolee?
Carolee: Ooh, that's a good question.
Monica: That's a hard question for me.
Carolee: That's a hard question for me too, because like, I feel like each one of them kind of contributed their own thing. And I feel like I haven't really squeezed all the juice out of a couple, but I think that will be good.
Monica: Same, same.
Carolee: I think, I think for like overall best course was probably Supercharger Productivity. I think just the folks that I've met through the course and kind of like the philosophy behind it, I feel like Khe did an amazing job with that course. And I think it just keeps getting better and he keeps iterating on it, especially because he kind of, does it live each, each new cohort? It's not necessarily like he teaches the same information, but each time he teaches it, it's going to be a little different.
So I really liked that. And I know I signed up for his like year long kind of mastermind type thing. It's, I'm excited for that. And then I'm trying to think what else of the design course that we took. My, my brain is like they stole my blood today, guys so my brain not a hundred.
(10:08 Snip Issue)
Monica: I love that course.
Carolee: Yes, thank you. Thank you. That was so much fun. It was a wild ride, but it was so much fun to see everybody's creativity. And because-
Monica: Carolee, do you want to the very, very short description of that course. Because they probably don’t know.
Carolee: So basically you just sit down with some folks and create your like personal design language almost I would say right.
And it's very, like, he teaches it basically like in two big blocks, like it's just a weekend long set. And by the end of it, you have like this whole design thing, like, like in Figma and all of these other things, like, it was just kind of a way I had never approached design before. And as a person who usually hires designers, it was really empowering to kind of do that for myself and see what that process was like.
And then the cool thing was, is you got to see everybody else's design and all these other people's kind of like whatever kind of came out of them. And that was what I thought was pretty cool. What did you think about that one?
Monica: I um, I know I love that course and there are a lot of different things. I dunno, like one thing about like, about my, my, my way of like observing or like engaging with things is that yeah it’s a course about design, but I will see like a lot of other things too.
So for example, it was the first weekend course. And in my mind, like all courses were like month long. Okay. There were like two options look at like four week course or like a two week course. I don't know, like an eight week course, but this was just a weekend. So it almost felt like a retreat. And, you know, you just, just kinda like cut down your ties to the world and like, let's just get together around this campfire.
And the group was very, very small. Nate Cadillac leading that course has put together a great team Green, like you know, Heather, like there there's so many, it's a very small group, but like each facilitator was like, so good, like leading the breakout rooms. And you know, when you do like the pair activities to do like more exploration discovery of your, of your like taste and colors and like kind of pulling that out of you.
So like, that was really cool. Yeah. I agree with you, like seeing other people's work. Like I was really, really engrossed in mine, but then I had the, to see everybody else's it was like, wow, we're all like different. And it's all us. It's like, you know, it's like me and you create like your, your palette of colors and and indirectly you learn how to use this really powerful tool.
Like Figma, like he was not teaching Figma, but we were doing it on Figma. And I think some of the little tips that we learned from that course I'm using it, like for so many things-
Carolee: Yea, absolutely.
Monica: So many things. So I've learned about like a tool about design, like, you know, learning how to create a design board, like design taste, board, design language, like you said.
It made me really. It open options. Like, you know, you can, you can do a workshop and, you know, you can help just as much in like just two days or like in one day. And yeah, that was like, that was really cool. And like, I love, I love Nate's newsletter. Like you know, I bought his, his like Figma course too-
Carolee: Oh you did?
Monica: -that he is building. And. Yeah, I'm just really excited. And I was just like nudging him. Okay. Can you create a pro-create course? Because I think it's going to be just as awesome. And I really that's one thing that I want to do next year. Like I want to sketch more and like-
Carolee: Oh yeah.
Monica: -downloaded pro-create. But like, I don't, I don't use it as much. Like creative expression, like using my hands more. That's going to be like one of the things that I want to do more next year. That's fine. Approachable design, that's like up there for me.
Carolee: Yea, approachable design, that’s really, really good. What's kind of like, what would you say your number one was for the year course wise?
Monica: So it's like so hard.
Carolee: I know, it’s like choosing a baby.
Monica: Like you said, like you said every course, like, and I think the order also like, you know, matters for me. My, my very first core like Cohort-based course was Ali Abdaal's PTYA, Part-Time Youtuber academy. And it was like, wow. You know, like all his people all over the world.
And I was so used to just like, you know, classroom style courses. So it was like very different, like, oh, wow, what is this? And like, ah, this is Ali Abdaal. Like, so I had this yeah, I think like if I were to take the course now, it would feel very different, but everything was cool about the course, the first time. The first time, and I'm still involved in the, in the community of the first cohort and because it was the first cohort, that also meant a lot.
Carolee: Oh yeah, absolutely.
Monica: I think courses when it's like the first core, like the, the first I don’t know, four cohorts.
Carolee: Yeah. They're just different
Monica: They feel very special.
Carolee: Yeah. Yeah. Cause you're kind of like, everything's still getting figured out, you know, I guess I think for some people they won't appreciate that it's still like the wheels, not a hundred percent greased. They haven't quite figured out all of the tech necessarily or something like that. But I think, I think if you do, if that is your thing and you like to see how something evolves, especially if it's just like a casual interest where you're like, oh yeah, someday I'd like to teach a course.
I think watching another person run a course, maybe for the first time or the second time, just like in those early stages of running a course is really enlightening. Even if it's like, oh, they did a really fantastic job here or in my course, I, I see how they did this, but I'd want to do this instead just for my own like flexibility or what I intend to teach or whatever.
I think there is that kind of rawness to like the whole package that feels really different. So yeah, that is definitely a part of that. And I feel like there were a couple of courses, like I was, I basically took, I took a PTYA, I think third, I was part of the third cohort cohort and yeah, just seeing that kind of evolve. And even now it's going to how it's going to evolve now, now that Ali's doing different things entirely-
Monica: Are you doing, are you in the executive program, like you can take it multiple times?
Carolee: So I think so. I know it was in cohort four and-
Monica: Then probably you are then.
Carolee: Then yeah. And so. It was pretty bad because like I did not have the time to take care of this last quarter. And I think this is going to be probably one of my regrets of the year was not just specifically that, but, and I know that you'll identify with this really strongly because you were doing it alongside me for several situations where we were taking like three or four courses at a time. And I felt like-
Monica: I couldn't do most of them.
Carolee: Exactly. I didn't have the, like, just clearance in my brain to make the most of them. So I feel like going back to it this next year, because you know, we have access to them thankfully beyond the cohort will be really beneficial, just going back and-
Monica: Yea, like retaking them.
Carolee: Okay. Let me go through this and actually take the time to do all of this because-
Monica: I, I would love to do t with you.
Carolee: Yeah, absolutely. We should, we should definitely talk about doing that together. Cause I know it's been on your, your list of things to do as well. But yeah, just going back and being like, okay, now that I have all of this time, I'm now taking, because I believe at one point I was taking like Supercharged Productivity, Tiago Forte is Building a Second Brain and also like Part-Time YouTuber Academy all the same time.
Monica: They are at around the same time. I I do think that-
Carolee: Exactly. They had clipped. Yeah. And so I was like, I feel like I was able to give a lot to SYP, a little bit to Building a Second Brain and then very little to Part-Time Youtuber Academy.
Monica: I see, I you know, and I do believe in like retaking the courses. Like I, one regret I have is that PTYA was my, my very first cohort-based course. I'm like the price tag that's like too high, and like I was not working and, and I didn’t buy the executive, like the executive level, but that's like one regret I wish I did. And like, I could be part of like the other you know cohorts, but oh, well. I would love to retake some of the material. YouTube is definitely one area that I want to be more consistent and build better habits on you know, next year, but Building a Second Brain that has been for me an amazing course. And like the first time I didn't feel like it was like, okay, no, like, yeah, I get it. I had already seen a lot of content, you know, from YouTube.
Carolee: Right.
Monica: Maybe it was because I was also part of the, you know, Supercharger Productivity, but the second time around I think it's maybe cohort 13. The one that just ended, I was, I was a moderator and maybe because of that, but I was just intentionally more involved. And the course in my opinion, took a big, you know, like had a big upgrade, like, you know, production wise, material wise, like the mentors and to me was a lot better. And just like learning like little things, you, you Tiago says something like, you know, like some of the important lessons, you have to learn them over and over again.
Carolee: Yea, absolutely.
Monica: And that's how it fell with, you know, Building a Second Brain cohort 13, where I learned a lot of like very small things, like very small tweaks you know, like how to approach the second brain and almost like how not to try so hard, like very, very interesting like frameworks and that I don't think would have come the first time around.
Carolee: Oh for sure, yea.
Monica: So a lot of these courses, I think you have to retake, but Yeah, definitely like highlights. Like I can not choose a one course, but definitely high up there it's like Right of Passage, Right of Passage. Have you taken that? No? Not yet. Not yet. Okay. It's it really is. I think like the gold standard for like the, the cohort based like the, well, we know of cohort based courses, like how you have the live sessions, you have great content live session.
Very, very, very well run runs, you know, like live sessions and then you have a very, very active community. It's a very high, you know, like very high price tax. So like people who invest in it are like really invested. Right. So that's like the community and like, like the, the, the energy during the live sessions. This time I had, like, I was, I was a mentor by like, I was on a project and I was in Australia and I got a seat-
Carolee: I remember that.
Monica: so probably remember that. Right. So with that, I feel that I, I wasn't able to give my all and make the most, but definitely I'm going to retake the course and like, just go through it again. And it'd be great, you know, maybe if you became part of it one day, but-
Carolee: That's that I haven't been able to like, rationalize the price tag for because it is a super high price tag, because it is even compared to some of these other ones. So I'm just like, so my secret is I also have a copywriter who helps me. And so I'm kind of I think I have my copy writer, so I don't write as much as I, that's why I'm kind of like, I'm like, you can either do Write a Passage or you can have your copywriter. And I'm like, I kind of like having that crutch of the copywriter.
Monica: I know I need to find one too. That's like my, my next find looking for a copywriter and then a very, very special course to me was Ultra Speaking.
Carolee: Oh yeah.
Monica: Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a very like difficult course to explain because yeah, it's a course about like, you know, presentation and, you know, like we just play games, learn.
Carolee: Right
Monica: Yeah. We learn through games and we learn how to not try, you know? So it's like, if you just like, if you hear this or like what, like, it's not very convincing at all. For me it was very funny cause I was trying to put together a presentation course for like people who have a hard time, you know getting on stage, just talking to people, presenting and getting the timing right. And like, thinking about the audience. And so I was like, you know, what, what presentation courses are out there. Right. As any ADHD. Okay. I'm going to like any second brainer. Okay. I'm going to see what's around. I'm going to take pieces from here and there.
Carolee: Absolutely.
Monica: I want to make the ultimate course. Right. So somebody had recommended Ultra Speaking and also getting to reaching that person. Or how was he? Can you tell me how it was? And like, he's just telling me, I'm like, it seems like right up my alley, like a whole lot to take that course. And it's like, it's like totally life-changing. I've seen people go through the course and you can see, like it's a, it's not a huge cohort, so you can see people, like, if you, if you have your gallery view on zoom, you can see most, most of them seeing everybody change through every session, it's like pretty pretty incredible.And then you also change, you know, like for just being sort of like ready to talk whenever you have to.
Carolee: Yeah, absolutely.
Monica: Yeah. So that's one course that, yeah, it's, it's I'm not, I'm not like so tight with like the community. It didn't have that aspect, but in terms of like individual transformation, like that was very powerful.
Carolee: Yea, yea, it seems like, absolutely. Yeah. And that was one of the ones that I think did you, part of the, like, moderator group for ultra speaking or something like that?
Monica: No, no, no.
Carolee: Okay. For some reason I thought you were, yeah, I remember everybody's kind of just taking that and I was just like, it seems crazy, like you were saying, or just like play games. I'm like, no, I guess that makes sense. Cause it's really about like, just being prepared to talk.
Monica: It's like, it's like, it really forces you to do and learn like-
Carolee: Yeah, absolutely.
Monica: It was so crazy. Cause like their coaches are really, all of them are different and all of them are so great. And in one pod you have very small pods and you get pretty close to your pod mates.
We had like three people including myself and the coach. And at one point, cause you have this impromptu things, right, like presenting. And at one point one of our Pod mates just kind of like just, just, you know I don't know how to say it, like blanked out.
Carolee: Oh yeah, yea.
Monica: Completely blanked out. And I couldn't not just could not make it out of it. Right. And then as a, as a teacher myself, like, usually in that case is okay. Okay. Now, like just take your time. Okay. Next, you know, like you will just sort of gently give them space.
Carolee: Right, exactly.
Monica: But on ultra speaking, they like make you do it. And he was, and he was amazing at the aftermath of that, because like this person. 'cause like, oh, you know, like, okay, I want you to like, just like a little, a little spiel of like, you know, how to get in character back in character, and then they make you do it. And then ever since then, that person never froze. Never froze again.
Carolee: I feel like it's like one of those things you just have to kind of like, get your, get out of your system. And then you're like, okay, I've done it now. You know, it's like, you get that fear, especially around
Monica: Everybody goes for that.
Carolee: Exactly. And once you kind of get it out of your system, it's like out of your system. I think I learned. I learned that kind of the quick and dirty way when I was streaming video games on Twitch. t's this just like, even if no, one's watching you, you're expected to just be talking all of the time about what's going on, on screen, what's going on.
And I feel like it's kind of like that same type of thing as it's like, at one point you get over that kind of awkwardness of talking to yourself, and then you just kind of like, okay, now I can just go, you know, and just talk and do all of these things. And so it seems really like that, that like that freeze, everybody feels that freeze. I just love where you're like, you got to keep going and just like, yeah, you do. You just got to keep going through it and, and kind of get to the other side of that thing.
Monica: Definitely.
Carolee: And just be like, okay. And then I think you learn like on some level, like your body and your brain kind of figure out what that feels like. And then you're just like, okay, now just jump over it and kind of keep keeping
Monica: Yea, it's like video games. You get upgraded.
Carolee: Yea, totally.
Monica: My, I I've been playing a lot of Nintendo switch.
Carolee: I saw that. I was like, oh, she's playing switch. What do you guys play at home? I'm curious to be like, because I was-
Monica: Well, you know, we have a six, seven year old, so we've been playing a lot of the super Mario, like the mini games, poncho mini games
Carolee: that one's funny,
Monica: The new mini games came out.
Carolee:Ooooh.
Monica: And it's so funny. The first two times my kids kept crying. I don't how to play that. Like, this is not fun. And like, we were like trying to my husband and I were like, you know, you're not supposed to, know how to play your first day playing it and like trying to get them out of the, oh my God. It's like, kids are, are like a little lab, like a human labs.
Carolee: Yea, absolutely.
Monica: You can see like, oh my God, like humans, this is how we roll humanity.
Carolee: Exactly.
Monica: No filters. You know, they keep crying I lost again. Like I keep losing, I saw anyhow, like it's like hilarious, but yeah. How about like you, I think you also take your share of like obscure courses. I'm like, who, like, what is this course about?
Carolee: I think it’s interesting because yeah. Yeah. So it's interesting because I feel like we have like one set of things that were overlapped on. And then obviously, like you have your stuff, that's a little bit different for you. And I have my stuff, that's a little different for me. And so yeah, I have a tendency to like do a few other things, but I feel like a lot of those classes kind of, and the courses that I took on that side were a little bit ended up being kind of a little bit in the end, kind of moot because I was trying to solve a problem that didn't really exist, you know? And so like, one of the big things for me was I did get diagnosed with ADHD this year and kind of figuring out what that all meant. And like having a conversation with someone today to kind of see how far I'd gone just in the few months since my diagnosis to today was kind of wild.
And so like a lot of the courses that I was taking about like being seen and like like multipotentialite type of stuff and these types of things at the end of it, I mean, they were fantastic courses and I would advise them to people, but it ultimately was just kinda like, oh, I just didn't know I had ADHD.
And then once I kind of like worked through that, then I was able to just kind of be like, oh, okay I'm okay with this. And I can kind of move on and having just like a bunch of my stuff in my personal life, you know, just changed so rapidly over the last like 12 months or a little bit longer has just been, it's like, oh wait, I don't need to have, I don't have these specific fears anymore that kind of like lived with me for a really long time, or I don't really feel so strange about this kind of like being all over the place with the things I'm interested in or things that I want to do because it's like, oh no, that's just part of how my brain is wired. As opposed to it being like a character flaw up to that point, you know where it was.
I think a lot of us internalize that where it's just like, oh, if I just think my way out of it or will my way out of it or learn my way out of it, you know, then I'll be okay. And it's like, I'm lucky in one specific way that I wish I could bottle and give to people. Which is like, once my brain has an explanation of what's going on, it's like a flip gets like a switch gets flipped and it's fine after that.
And so like a lot of this stuff that I used to really take on and really dislike about myself and see as a character flaw, like I was saying, it's literally just ADHD. I just didn't know that's what it was. And then once they were like, oh no, you have ADHD. Like, this is a thing that you have. It's like, this is why you do this. I was like, okay, that's cool then. And my brain is just like, that's just how we work. So I don't feel like I had to worry about any of that stuff anymore. And so, yeah, I feel like a lot of the courses that I took outside of that we're just kind of like ended up being like, oh yeah, no, I just have ADHD.
Now I can kind of manage myself if I manage based on that. And and then going into it and realizing that it's like, oh yeah, I'm also probably autistic. And how do I live with that in mind? And, and changing all of these things and kind of recognizing that like where I started the year with like being, having pretty severe depression that was difficult to treat and super high anxiety and all these things. And then ending the year, just basically being treated for ADHD and living in a way that supports, like my autistic needs. I don't take anti-anxiety drugs anymore. I don't take, and I'm about to go off my antidepressants next month because I just don't need them. Like, I'd been treated for anxiety and depression since I was 18.
And I'm an old lady now I'm about to turn 40 next month. And now I'm just like, oh, I spent the last, like 20 years being treated for something I really just didn't have because we didn't look to see it was ADHD. You know, it was just kind of like one of those weird things I kind of like catches up to you. And I'm like, that literally just happened only a few months ago. That's crazy to me that so much can change in that time. And it was interesting that you were talking about like how we kind of perceive time, especially in times like this, or we're looking back on the year and you think kind of about where were you in January? Like what was going on? And it feels like forever ago, like it may have been may as well, then 10, 15 years ago.
Just that moment. And I talking to you about it and talking to my husband who also has ADHD, just that kind of we really struggle with the like moment to moment memory, right. Where it's like, why did I come in this room? What was I looking to get in the, in the refrigerator? You know, those types of things.
But like once we sleep on it and it gets transferred from like that short-term memory into the long-term memory, it's there forever. And just like our weird perception of time and how it's like, okay, that was forever ago. It just seems like, oh yeah, I've just always known this was a thing, even though it wasn't, that wasn't the case, or we were talking about like, we've only lived here a year, felt like 13 months at this point. And we were thinking back on the wild, crazy road trip that we took across the country. We're like, that feels like it was a lifetime ago and it was literally just like 13 months ago.
Monica: That’s crazy.
Carolee: And so weird to think about how time is in our brains.
Monica: Yeah, you moved all the way from California. You’re right.
Carolee: And we drove across the, across the country during the pandemic with two corgis, one of whom was undergoing chemo at the time. It was just like-
Monica: Oh my gosh.
Carolee: Ruby decided she did not want to eat at one point. It was, but we just kept thinking about it. And we looked on we were driving up the road and we're like, oh yeah, that was a year ago. It was last December.
Monica: That's crazy.
Carolee: I was like, just so, so different. It's so crazy.
Monica: Um, yeah. That's like so much to, so much to talk about. Like we need to have another session on like, specifically learning about ADHD and like yeah. Just how, like, how to cope with that. But have you taken any, any courses like to learn more about the, like the, I don't know any of this conditions that you learned about.
Carolee: So I did take a, it was kinda like a coaching course with somebody who I found on Twitter. Her name's Dusty. I can't remember her last name right now, but I'll put it in the show notes for people, if they're curious. And I think a lot of what I learned out of it, and again, it's one of these weird things where it's my brain specifically. Like this is a Carolee brain thing, as far as I can tell where it's like, I'll learn one thing from it. And that'll be like the thing I needed to learn from that class. And then I'll just kind of move on. Like my brain is like, thank you.
Monica: I am totally like that too.
Carolee: Okay, good. Cause like, for me, like building a second brain, I checked out like after I built out my like, Paris.
Monica: Project, okay.
Carolee: And then I was like, all of the rest of it may as well, just not happen cause I'm like, okay. I got the system together. I'm good. Bye. But yeah, she ran a fantastic portrait, a coaching thing about living with ADHD for folks. And honestly, one of the things that was like that moment for me was a video about, from a doctor who specialized in ADHD of just like how ridiculously common it is, how easy it is to treat, but how infrequently people are diagnosed and how infrequently they're well-treated because of the stigmas and issues with the medication.
And he was just like, we know how to treat this, it's easier to treat than most mental health treatments. Especially when you look at things like depression. Depending on the depression, you're going to have like a bunch of different drugs, some of which work better than others and it's totally dependent on your brain chemistry.
It's like, actually we know quite a bit about it. We know how it works. We know how to fix it, but we don't look for it in people. And one of the things that's like, we look for it in as well, at least here in the United States and that's where he was talking from you know, like young children, a lot and specifically more boys than girls because of the way that boys and girls are socialized, you know, as, as children.
And then he listed off like a ton of things like it was a really like high pressure presentation that he did, but he's like, yeah you know, like you're going to run out of executive function. He's like, that's just going to happen. Like, even if you're well-treated, it's just going to happen. So here's what you need to do. Like go find a sugary beverage and like sip on the sugary beverage and that'll get your brain to the sugar it needs. And you'll just keep on moving. He's like, get up and move around, like listen to music, do a dance, you know, get your body moving and all these types of things. And then I was like, okay, that's what I needed to hear.
And my brain was like, bye. Okay, so now it's like, I can feel myself kind of lagging and I'm like, okay, I need a tiny soda. I like these little itty bitty, tiny sodas that I'll sip on. And then I'll get up and move around and do that. And I'm like, okay, now I can sit back. I think more of what I took away from this year was that feeling of, and this was for me, like really recent as I was given stimulants for my ADHD, because I still really struggle with focus.
And I think what I learned is, I wrote about this on Twitter. It's just like, I'm not going to get physically addicted to some of these. I'm going to get like mentally addicted to them because the focus is intense. And you are just riding a high of focus and ability to do stuff. And that is intoxicating for a person who has struggled with focus their entire lives, you know. And I was like, I've taken these like two or three days and already I'm like, I just want to do this forever.
I can do all of the things. And it was at that point, I was like, okay, I need to slow my roll a little bit here. And so this week I was just like, no stimulants, no nothing. I need to get a really good grip on what it's like to do work as a person with ADHD, as a person who runs her own business, as all of these things and not just get so focused on production. Like all that stuff is important, but it is not the be all end all of my life here on earth, you know?
And so, and I think we can, especially as entrepreneurs, as people with ADHD who struggle with focus, you know, it's like you get into that thing where it's like, okay, I can just focus and I'll just do all the work. And then your value kind of gets tied up in that. And I feel like that's the one thing I've been trying to learn from all of this is it's like, just because that's new doesn't mean it's good.
You know. Being wired, being like super focused to the point where you can't like, do anything else, it's not necessarily like where you want to be. It's not even how people without ADHD focus. You know, like we think it's just like, they struggle with focus. They struggle with moments where they're like, I can't pull anything from my brain right now, but I think it's all part of that, like wrapped up in those ideas where it's like, oh, this was a character flaw of mine.
Like, I couldn't be productive. I couldn't do all of this. Like, I'm lazy, I'm bad at this. I'm doing this type of thing. I think that's like the biggest thing that I've taken away from all of that, like learning around ADHD and all these things is it's like I'm holding myself to a really unrealistic standard because, because of that, because of not knowing it just was, a way that my brain works differently because it was thinking that it's like, oh, I'm lazy. I'm flighty. I'm a flake. I don't, you know, I struggled to finish projects. Like this makes me a bad person. It's like, nah, you're just, you're just doing your best out here like we all are.
Monica: Yeah, totally. I yeah, I can, I can still relate on, on like you desperately want the other, like what you don't have, like if you're, if you're having focus issues. Okay. I want to focus, but then like there, it's really hard to choose the intensity, the extent, or like the way, or like how it looks, I want to focus in this way and like, we don't get to choose that. Cause I I've heard, I've heard about like, yeah. It's, it's amazing. Like it's so crazy how like the intense focus that and like from going to no focus to like extreme focus can be pretty, pretty like yeah, intoxicating.
Carolee: Yeah.
Monica: I have not, you know, I've taken medicine, but I have a friend who, who was saying that he always has in his pocket, this pill like that if he just cannot take it any longer he will like pop one in and it's it's it's almost like that peace of mind helps him focus.
Carolee: Yeah, exactly what it's like.
Monica: So like, I I've been always kind of weary about medication and like stuff like that, I think like so I, I do still feel like nervous about, okay, I'm going to change like my, my body chemistry, my brain chemistry, but there are moments where I'm like, okay, brain, can you please quiet, like please, please, please, please, please. Like for an hour. And I ma I really want to try that, like having the knowledge, just like taking a little break, taking a little break, right. From your break yelling at you.
Carolee: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that was the thing that kind of was that game changer for me, that took me out of that anxiety that I thought I had and into this was just like, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't anxiety.
It's not, my brain was literally running so fast that I couldn't, by the time one thought had gone through my head, there was like 20 more thoughts already on top of it. Like we're also here with us. And of course I think like anybody would be anxious in that situation, like ADHD or no, like if you've got like 30 thoughts, try to like run through your brain all at the same time you're going to be in trouble.
Yeah. I think that was another one of the things I took away from that. I've been on all sorts of medications from antidepressants and anxiety medications, and now into this, and honestly, I think. And the doctor that I was talking about kind of back this up was just like the drugs that are used for treating them are honestly some of the most adaptable, like, you know, if you think about things like antidepressants and how much they can change people in all of these types of things, the ones for this, even the ones that are, are not the stimulants and things like that, that do start to change your brain chemistry a little bit.
It's just so different. It's just so different than like an antidepressant or something like that. Just the amount of change that it, that it works. And because I'm such a nerd about these things, I have kind of dipped my toe into the, into the inner workings of the medications, just for my own kind of curiosity. And it's just really interesting and cool that it's. Just hold a little thing.
Monica:Very, very small thing.
Carolee: Yeah. Yeah.
Monica:That's a huge difference. So that's why I was asking you. Oh, you know, cause I'm going to, I am going to be more proactive about treating my ADHD and, and, and especially now that I'm more visible online and like you said, like there are so many smart people out there, like amazing ideas and, and it's very, like, I have both my, my English world and my Korean world.
And they're like so different. It's almost like times like two X, two X of the input people take in cause like I have to do a huge context switch, you know, from the language.
Carolee: Yeah, absolutely.
Monica:The way Koreans communicate is different and the ways that ideas are produced are different. And like, I'm like sort of, I can resonate with both because like, it's like, it's, it's crazy. I feel like as a bilingual living in Korea and like doing work for, and a global company, but then like working in Korea for like Korean audience, it's like, yeah, It's pretty wild.
Carolee: Yea, and all of that context, switching, like you were saying, all of that context, switching of going from like, like a lot of people are like, oh, obviously you speak in a different language, but it's like, you totally hit it on the head where it's not just the language.
It's also like, like language and how the culture like interprets different things and all of the, and like how they approach different ideas. And I just think it's, so it's an, I, it has to be intense. Like I give you so many props.
Monica: Like it's very intense and I didn't, like, I wasn't aware of how intense it was until this year, because like, I, to be, to be like honest, like I was always like 80% of my mind was in my English world. Right. Because like I was teaching and English coaching, and like, that's like more of what I needed. But I'm doing more work like locally and I definitely need to learn like the, the local sort of texture for like how to talk and communicate and relate. And I've been like digging and I've been like intentionally pursuing more of that content.
It's like, wow. So I, I might need more planning, like, okay, shutting down this, this part for a few days. But both are so fun and like both are so stimulating. And so I just, I feel like I become almost like drunk. Like it's the best expression you become drunk of all these like, oh, feel good moments. And like you get on your highs.
It's like, you get like drunk and high. And I I've been like you know, the whole thing about like Instagram, I used to hate Instagram, like hated, hated. Cause I treated it like, okay, it's like my business or like, I need to give customers Instagram, but I'm treating Instagram like Twitter lately and just sort of connecting with people.
Oh, I want to like find people that I'd like, and I'm putting stuff and I'm getting, trying to like, put my frequency and see who, who like reacts to that. And it's been like pretty fun. Yeah. Like I'm, I'm finding really cool people on Instagram that like, I generally like, not just like, okay, I want to, I want to, you know, like dabble onto like their audience or like, you know, I think, I think their audience and my audience are similar, but like I stopped thinking about those things and it's said, oh, I like you. I like, I like what you just posted. I like it. I'm going to follow you.
Carolee: Yeah, absolutely. And this is such a different context, you know? And it's interesting that you say that because I'm starting to treat Twitter more like my Instagram, so I'm doing the opposite.
Monica: Interesting.
Carolee: Mostly because I found that I was treating Twitter, like really businessy. And so there was a lot of times where it was like, I didn't feel comfortable necessarily being my full self in all of my facets-
Monica: On Twitter.
Carolee: -on Twitter. And so the way that I got over that in Instagram was having like my business account and my personal account. And so I'm basically, I'm creating like a business account, which is the one I'm currently on for Twitter and then a personal account where I can just, you know-
Monica: Just be yourself.
Carolee: Just put on everything and, you know, and that's just the expectation over there. And having that be the case. And so I feel like that's this kind of. I think that we could probably make a whole episode about just like-
Monica: Totally.
Carolee: -how you show up online and all of these. Yeah, exactly. That's it.
Monica:That's a great idea. Yeah. For another episode, for sure.
Carolee: Yeah, absolutely. I think it's, especially, I feel like it's more of a pressure for women in particular where it's like, you know, we want to show up maybe in all of these ways and we're not necessarily, and especially ADHD, of course, we've got like all of our hyper focuses and interests and all these other things.
And so it's like, hi, I know I met you in shift 30 for 30, but here's my weird obsession with VTS enjoy. Or, hey, did you know, I used to work in the games industry. Here's what I think of that trash fire, you know, like that kind of stuff. And so, and then it was like, I was like, I'm like, I just, I would feel better if it was just separated. And then I could just like, talk about business and all this stuff over here. Talk about this stuff over here and then I'll feel fine. It was like an internal thing.
Monica: That's yeah. That's that's what I think works for me too. That's what I did for my Instagram. Like I was treating it like a business and now I'm like, I'm turning that into my personal, and then I'll think about business later and is way more fun.
Carolee: Absolutely. I think it's like-
Monica: I really loved your posts recently too. Instagram,
Carolee: On Instagram, on the, like the work account, trying to find that's my secret.
Monica: Alienentrepeneur
Carolee: Yeah, that one's. So my secret about that one, that was another 2021 get is I actually have like a team of people who helped me now because ADHD is another like ADHD, tip.
I actually have a friend who has her like clothing line is blowing up and she's getting a lot more stuff. And she was like, yeah, you know, I can really use like a copywriter. And I was like, look at you, like, get the team together, doing this whole thing. So one of the things that really happened for me in 2021 was I was just doing too much.
You know, like when you run a business, when you're an entrepreneur, you're expected to wear every single hat. You know, you're, you're the HR department, you're the marketing department, you're doing everything like, and so one of the things I noticed is I was really struggled getting content onto Instagram.
And so I hired somebody who basically helps me, like gives me stuff. She does all the graphics and stuff. I give her all the information and then it gets posted for me. And so everything looks so much better. I think about it so much less. And it all works. Perfectly yea.
Monica: Awesome. The second thing that I want to do as well. Like how can I delegate?
Carolee: Yeah.
Monica: Yea, and I've been, I've been a lot better at delegating. Some of the things that, that I have on my Instagram are also like, you know, I have somebody who will put something together really fast. And it's not perfect, but I definitely need to, or want to get a copywriter or somebody who writes and helps with like the running part.
Carolee: Yeah. And I, that's kind of, I saw how great that that was working for me specifically on Instagram. And then I'm friends with somebody who is a copywriter. Like she and I met through my business coach and we just like hung out and were like similar enough. And then she was like, Hey. Do you want me to just kind of like make you up a list of topics to kind of start you off?
Because again, you'll understand. This is like, when everything is a possibility and your brain just works on possibilities, like everything is a possibility. So you sit down and write a blog post and you're like, okay, do I want to write this one? Or this one or this one or this one, or all this stuff lives in my, like, you know, second brain and I can pull this from here and do this thing.
And by the end of it, you're just like, I've written nothing, but I have like five different articles research. So I've been to go eventually, once I figure out which one I'm going to write. Having her to send me a list of like, Hey, what about this topic? That's really specific to the new year
Monica: Oh, wow.
Carolee: And then maybe try this one or do this. And so she's literally just writing me out like one liner type of things, but it helps me so much to just be like, I've outsourced the thinking of what I'm going to write about. And therefore I can just show up and write the thing,
Monica: And write, or like show up.
Carolee: -so much better. And it's the same thing for Instagram and brought it over here. And I was just like, oh, I just sat down last night and wrote a blog post it's like, who is this person sitting inside of my body.
Monica: That's awesome, awesome.
Carolee: It helps a lot. So yeah, that's I think once you can, that was the thing that I learned from 2021. It's like once you can get as much help as you can, like reasonably afford and, and make work for you because it's wearing all of those hats is exhausting and I wouldn't want to run you out before.
Monica: Yea, I definitely want a copy writer. I think copy like EAs yeah. I can train them so I can, I can, I can find somebody who is very inexpensive and I think copywriters is it's a bit more difficult to find like affordable. It's a, it's a, it's a more, I think expensive skill.
Carolee: Yeah, absolutely. And it's one that is a little bit, like you were saying a little bit more specialized to who you are that you feel like you can do. They can kind of fake being you for a little bit kind of a thing. Which is a lot more difficult than with a VA or you're like, oh no, this is my VA. They do my customer service emails, no big deal. If you're like, oh, this, this copy that I wrote is one thing. And then the copywriter comes in and it's wildly different in tone or whatever.
And you're just like, yikes, that's a little bit more difficult. You can't really train for that. That's kind of one of those things it's like, okay, I have to see, like what you write already and see how someone away.
Monica: Exactly.
Carolee: I lucked out with my copywriter. Like I said, because I had met her through my business coach and my business coach kinda like elbowed me. And she's like, yeah, like I don't write any of the emails that I send out. That's all Jamie. I was like and she's like, yeah, half of my blog posts are Jamie and Jamie's just amazing. And so now Jamie and I have worked on a couple of projects together. We just have like the right if we can just work on that right voice. And that's so critical. I think with that specifically, it's finding that right person who gets you. Yep.
Monica: Yeah. So 2021, I think it was it was a great yeah, 2021 was a great year of learning, exploring. I think 22 will be the same in terms of like, we'll explore and like learn. But I definitely have built sort of like my language of things that I want to explore before it was, oh, wow second brain. What is that like? Oh, like, you know what I mean? Like product, like by directional linking, what is that like? So you I, I definitely feel that I have just more, more vocabulary for, for what I want.
I would have never thought, oh, I want, I want to find a VA or a copywriter. Like so like I'm really excited about, about 2022 and juggling all these things you know, all like recording more podcasts. And once we figure out like our own routine having inviting people that I think will be very exciting.
Carolee: Absolutely. Yeah. And I think, I think. I'm going to be, I'm going to be the goof for a second and be like, I'm grateful that I met you in 2021. Like, that's one of my favorite things is that it's like you and I have connected. And I think people can see that just like in our podcast together, is this just like we met through, I think like SYP or one of these like cohort versus, and now we're doing a podcast together and it's like this crazy wild thing that both of us were like, let's do that thing.
Let's do it. And I think that was really like, that's, I think one of the greatest parts about all of this is just like we learned, we learned that we had similar interests and we kind of came together to do this thing together and we wouldn't have done it without any of these courses or any of this stuff. And I think it's just really. So it's really cool. 2021 was a wild and crazy year. It was definitely an all above year, but it's one that I'm grateful happened. I can still say that.
Monica: I don't think I would be here without the 2021, lots of mistakes I've made and bad choices, but I made some good ones and yeah, for 2022, like it's, I think it's going, gonna be yeah, we'll, we'll go over in our next episode that I'm already excited to record, like talking, talking about how we're approaching this.
Carolee: Yeah. Yeah. Cause-
Monica: I think it's going to be exciting.
Carolee: I think. Well, I think when we talked about it earlier, I really liked the way that you said it and I'm like, I'm just going to do what Monica is doing.. Monica is doing, I like it. I think when we talked about it a little bit before we started recording I think it will be an interesting, interesting conversation.
And we're also going to talk about planners. So if you're like a paper person, like where you're like digital and analog, we're going to talk about what kind of planners we're using.
Monica: Yeah. I, I th the, the last all we, we didn't cover books.
Carolee: Okay. So what's your top? What is your favorite book this year? I know what mine is, so but that one for sure, I can look it up.
Monica: So different books, different books,
Carolee: So many books.
Monica: Give you different stuff. I think the book that made me the most pumped in like, you know, like I read this in another, in another book you have inspiration and like the inspiration, like the role of inspiration is just to get you inspired.
Like, and, and then his job is over and then you don't, you, you need, you need like the, the, the, after you, you need like a little baton you know, like baton touch with something that makes you do things and move right. For, for me, that book was Minimalist Entrepreneur by Sahil.
Carolee: Yeah. I’ve heard a lot of people being off that book-
Monica: I loved that book. And you know like it was the book that got me like to, to, to like organize my notes and I have a bunch of ideas that I want to hopefully, you know, publish and take it to action next year.
But then like, just recently I started looking at this other book was, which is what's about oh, this is also inspiration. Let's call it bad, bad translation. And this is lady who, who takes like different photos of different things that inspired her and a little message. And that like made me think, you know, like not all notes have to be like this text heavy. It could just be a picture. And then a little note about the picture.
Carolee: Yea, absolutely. Yeah. And that really rings true to me because all my scrapbooking and things like that. And it's like, sometimes those are the things that will trigger something in your head. Like you're saying, going back to those pictures during the year and you're just like, oh yeah, that's right.
Even if it was like something that's not even in the photo so that you're like, oh yeah, I was thinking about this thing at that time. And I was doing this those little reminders or triggers of those times.
Monica: Lots of re like recording and doing action. Like lots of good books. How about you?
Carolee: Yeah. So for me, it was definitely Effortless by Greg McKeown, which is his book after Essentialism. Like I read Essentialism every single year to always remind me like doing that, what doing what's important and focusing on what's important. And I feel like Effortless was really good because it reminded me to stop working so goddamn hard. And that was I like-
Monica: I need to read that book.
Carolee: -major part of like how I came out of 2021 of what my expectations for what my work was going to look like for all these things. I'm like, I'm making this really freaking hard on myself. Why am I doing that? And just kind of reassessing and just being like, okay, this is what I want to do. This is how I'm going to do it. And, and go from there. And that was just like, and honestly, it's so fast. Like that's the fantastic things about his book.
Like I had it on, I got it on audible. Cause I had a whole bunch of audible credits that I hadn't used and I just listened to it. And took notes, you know, it's great because he like consolidates all of it in the end. And like basically like just quick notes. So you listened to it and then you're like at the end, as he's going through it kind of digesting it.
And that way, if we've been through Building a Second Brain, it's kind of like taking those notes for yourself. And it's just like, this is really, really good and learning some really cool stuff. Like I think you can sum up the book in like one little story, which was like when they were starting Netflix, the first thing that they did, like their minimum viable product was going and buying a used DVD and going up the street and buying a greeting card, putting the DVD inside the greeting card and just shipping it to themselves.
And they're like, if we can't make this work, we can't make Netflix work. So we have to know this first. And it works. And so then they were like, okay, so the next step is how we set up the systems to actually send these DVDs. But if they couldn't send DVDs cheaply, then it would have been out of it. And I was like, yeah, I'm the one who's going to go into the plan of how I'm going to set up the whole rigamarole of all of that before I've sent the DVD through the mail to see if it works.
And so going back and looking at that and saying like, oh, okay, let me start by just shipping a DVD and a greeting card or whatever that is for the project, I think has been a really big thing that just kind of like helped me demystify, like what I wanted to get done. And just focusing on those like minimum viable products, like what do you have to do to make it work? And-
Monica: Yeah, my, one of the biggest, like, I dunno, I need to, you know, like Ted Lasso had the belief, you know, the, on the, on the in the locker room and I want to have, what would it look like if you were easy, easy?
Carolee: Yeah, yeah.
Monica: That's like, you know, I, I don't think it's, it, it, it came from Tim Ferris, but maybe he was inspired by Effortless, I don't know.
Carolee: Well, Effortless is a new book, so it was probably more inspired by Tim, but yeah, I think it's like, especially with for folks like us can get really good things.
Monica: Things don’t have to be hard.
Carolee: Yeah. If we like, we like complexity, like we like to take a small idea and turn it into something massive. And I don't think we nurture it enough when it is that small idea. And you'd be like, okay, how can we, before you explode into this whole big, massive thing, what do I need to know about you at this size? Like, what is, what is that first level question to ask yourself? And so, yeah, I think that idea about how can it be easy? How can we stop that? Like ADHD acceleration to the end of which we are so likely to do to see it from like, okay, here's this cool beginning.
And then all of a sudden we're at the end, it's like, all right, can you say what this, this beginning and start with what that would that'll be, and then move on to the next step. Like hit the brakes, calm down a little bit. But yeah, I think both of his books are fantastic. And thankfully for folks with ADHD really short, you can listen to them on audible.
If that's available to you where you are and #notsponsored, we don't have any audible sponsorship or anything like that. But yeah, I think they're just really great, especially I love to read effort or not Effortless, but Essentialism when I feel like I'm underwater with just like too many ideas, too many things, too many, just too much weighing on me.
Monica: Yea, I need to check that out.
Carolee: Yeah. And it just sits and you're just like, okay, what's actually important. Like, what are the things that only I can do? What are the things that are going to be the things that move the the needle forward on any of this. And I need that roughly one to two times a year. I'll admit that I needed it more often, probably than, than a lot of people do.
But it helps me every single time this'll be like to stop. And I feel like Effortless is kind of this natural progression on it, where it's like now, how do I make, what, what is still important? What's the things I do need to do. How do I make them easy instead of incredibly freaking difficult? So both great books. So, yeah, that's what I say my number one for this year.
Monica: Yea, I love that. Yeah, so many books that I don't know, what's on your list for like, you know, like next list, next reads. But I have like this long list of books, but let's save that for the next episode where we talk about 2022.
Both: Every time I hear that it's going to be about 12 hours, 12 hours, 12 hours. You're going to be, you're already going to be a next year. She's calling from the future.
Monica: So yea tune in for our next episode where we're going to talk about 2022 planning, or maybe not planning what we want to do, what are some habits that we want to build? And maybe we can talk about Notion, which is probably like where I'm going to use to track some of those habits, but.yeah, so nice to, to catch up and next episode.
Carolee: I know. Thanks. You guys we'll see you in X amount of time. However long it takes us. I promise we'll get a cadence at some point, but we're in chaos votes still. Awesome. Thanks a lot, everyone. Bye.
Monica: Bye. Happy New Year.
Carolee: Happy new year.